Folks, Dave's method works, I've seen him post his boat through a narrow gap sailing into the wind, and it WAS a wind that day!
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Tacking through the wind
Tacking through the wind
Hello everyone
Thanks very much to everyone who has contributed to this discussion.
I must admit that the “experience” I went through with not being able to tack was the first time in my life when I have been unable to control a boat. I was fortunate not to have been drowned. The experience has left me with a very cautious approach. I was advised by the last owner to try a small working jib and second reef on main. This I have tried in two stages. Firstly jib alone. Then both sails together. On both occasions it has been blustery with gusts up to 6. On both occasions I had the boat refuse to tack through the wind. I have noted the effect the wind has on the hull and reasoned one must have to have some serious way on to overcome the windage. I am going to refit the Genoa as soon as the weather calms down. I am sure part of my problem was too little foresail. As to centreplate and rudder blade. Both to date have been lowered fully and were so on the day. Mast is as near vertical as one can get. Stays are all taut. I do wonder if by being single handed whether the lack of “ballast” might be causing some of the problems. Were these boats meant to be crewed by 3 or have a family onboard?
I will be altering the mainsheet next week though I must admit the backstay fittings do appear rather flimsy to me. But that’s because on my Macwester the chain plates could be used to lift the boat.
I’ve also bought a lighter outboard Mariner 4 rather than keeping on with my Honda 5. Its much easier to stow in the cabin but still doesn’t appear to tilt properly when in the well.
I am presently reading The Complete Yachtmaster by Tom Cunliffe this passage seems to sum up the Swift too.” Boats with flat beamy midship sections……..suffer from a more subtle source of heel induced weather helm. As they lean over the leeward side of the immersed hull becomes rounded to a point of exaggeration. The weather side is correspondingly flattened. The imbalance produces weather helm which in certain cases appears suddenly and uncontrollably above a critical angle of heel. You need to watch out for this in such a vessel particularly if you are sailing in a river on a gusty day surrounded by expensive moored yachts.”
I will keep you informed of any developments which will take place once the weather improves.
Thanks again for all the advice.
Hugh
From: adler1197 [mailto:forum-general@swift18.org]
Sent: 18 January 2008 19:57
To: forum-general@swift18.org
Subject: [Swift 18] Re: Tacking through the wind
Hi Hugh - just wondered as the originator of this strand/topic if you'd had chance to try any of the advice and how you're getting on with your Swift?
Dave
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Thanks very much to everyone who has contributed to this discussion.
I must admit that the “experience” I went through with not being able to tack was the first time in my life when I have been unable to control a boat. I was fortunate not to have been drowned. The experience has left me with a very cautious approach. I was advised by the last owner to try a small working jib and second reef on main. This I have tried in two stages. Firstly jib alone. Then both sails together. On both occasions it has been blustery with gusts up to 6. On both occasions I had the boat refuse to tack through the wind. I have noted the effect the wind has on the hull and reasoned one must have to have some serious way on to overcome the windage. I am going to refit the Genoa as soon as the weather calms down. I am sure part of my problem was too little foresail. As to centreplate and rudder blade. Both to date have been lowered fully and were so on the day. Mast is as near vertical as one can get. Stays are all taut. I do wonder if by being single handed whether the lack of “ballast” might be causing some of the problems. Were these boats meant to be crewed by 3 or have a family onboard?
I will be altering the mainsheet next week though I must admit the backstay fittings do appear rather flimsy to me. But that’s because on my Macwester the chain plates could be used to lift the boat.
I’ve also bought a lighter outboard Mariner 4 rather than keeping on with my Honda 5. Its much easier to stow in the cabin but still doesn’t appear to tilt properly when in the well.
I am presently reading The Complete Yachtmaster by Tom Cunliffe this passage seems to sum up the Swift too.” Boats with flat beamy midship sections……..suffer from a more subtle source of heel induced weather helm. As they lean over the leeward side of the immersed hull becomes rounded to a point of exaggeration. The weather side is correspondingly flattened. The imbalance produces weather helm which in certain cases appears suddenly and uncontrollably above a critical angle of heel. You need to watch out for this in such a vessel particularly if you are sailing in a river on a gusty day surrounded by expensive moored yachts.”
I will keep you informed of any developments which will take place once the weather improves.
Thanks again for all the advice.
Hugh
From: adler1197 [mailto:forum-general@swift18.org]
Sent: 18 January 2008 19:57
To: forum-general@swift18.org
Subject: [Swift 18] Re: Tacking through the wind
Hi Hugh - just wondered as the originator of this strand/topic if you'd had chance to try any of the advice and how you're getting on with your Swift?
Dave
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I am interested in information about Swift 18
-
Brio of Hamble
- Anchored
- Posts: 6
- Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2006 12:38 am
- Location: Godalming Surrey
Tacking through the wind
Hi everyone,
When we first got our Swift three years ago we were similarly quite disappointed with how she sailed. She had a looked-after but shot (and probably the original) main and genoa, wouldn’t point or foot to windward and had quite some lee helm.
So we did a number of things:
• To increase overall speed through the water (and hence get as much lift as possible from the keel when going to windward) we made a blanking piece for the outboard well and a tilting mount for the outboard on the transom to eliminate the drag from the o/b propeller
• Laid tracks for the jib sheets inside the shrouds along the coach roof to reduce the sheeting angle
• Had a new jib made with a full length luff and as long in the foot as the spreaders allow
• Had a new mainsail made with a full length top batten and as much roach as possible
• Reset the keel stop as far aft as possible to make the keel more vertical. In fact we found that we could only drop the keel so far before it touched the front of the keel housing – the angle is still much more then the 15 deg the drawings show.
Results?
She points and foots considerably better, now tacking through 85 to 90 degrees and really making a decent fist of getting us to windward in all reasonable wind strengths.
One other change that now helps make her a pleasure to sail was reworking the rudder and stock to eliminate all the play.-:D
We’ve some photos of her with her new sails, if someone can tell us how to upload them..
Mike and Sue
Swift Brio (formerly Ice Cold, Freetrader 2, Gallette…)
When we first got our Swift three years ago we were similarly quite disappointed with how she sailed. She had a looked-after but shot (and probably the original) main and genoa, wouldn’t point or foot to windward and had quite some lee helm.
So we did a number of things:
• To increase overall speed through the water (and hence get as much lift as possible from the keel when going to windward) we made a blanking piece for the outboard well and a tilting mount for the outboard on the transom to eliminate the drag from the o/b propeller
• Laid tracks for the jib sheets inside the shrouds along the coach roof to reduce the sheeting angle
• Had a new jib made with a full length luff and as long in the foot as the spreaders allow
• Had a new mainsail made with a full length top batten and as much roach as possible
• Reset the keel stop as far aft as possible to make the keel more vertical. In fact we found that we could only drop the keel so far before it touched the front of the keel housing – the angle is still much more then the 15 deg the drawings show.
Results?
She points and foots considerably better, now tacking through 85 to 90 degrees and really making a decent fist of getting us to windward in all reasonable wind strengths.
One other change that now helps make her a pleasure to sail was reworking the rudder and stock to eliminate all the play.-:D
We’ve some photos of her with her new sails, if someone can tell us how to upload them..
Mike and Sue
Swift Brio (formerly Ice Cold, Freetrader 2, Gallette…)
Hi Mike & Sue
Just follow the prompts in the gallery section. First create an album and then you can upload picture items to it. The only confusion is that it feels like you must be buying something by asking to 'add to your cart' but this is just a way of telling you to upload it (if I remember it right).
If you're just illustrating a posting (as you are doing) just go to the 'add an attachment' box at the bottom of the post a reply page then press browse to select your picture file, add a fitting comment and then press 'add attachment'. It's the same as uploading an attachment in an email. this will put the picture in with your message.
Terry
Just follow the prompts in the gallery section. First create an album and then you can upload picture items to it. The only confusion is that it feels like you must be buying something by asking to 'add to your cart' but this is just a way of telling you to upload it (if I remember it right).
If you're just illustrating a posting (as you are doing) just go to the 'add an attachment' box at the bottom of the post a reply page then press browse to select your picture file, add a fitting comment and then press 'add attachment'. It's the same as uploading an attachment in an email. this will put the picture in with your message.
Terry
Im a late commer into the fray, but here my way to a partial solution. Phil is right the setup of the mast is critical, I have a tapered mast on Havoc some boats have a continuous diameter masts which could be diferent, so I make sure the standing rigging is TIGHT with rake, I recommend buyig a mast tensioner its worth the money with the performance gain. As I mentioned earlier boats differ even of the same class and mould and it takes alot of time fiddling to get a good setting, making notes all the time.
Dave
Dave
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joe_swift18
- Under way
- Posts: 13
- Joined: Tue Jan 02, 2007 8:07 pm
Angle of fully-down keel
Folks,
From the picture I have posted in the gallery of Evergreen on the cradle, I have calculated the angle of the keel. I know this picture was taken with the keel fully down (with the 45 or so turns of the screw) and only half a turn or so from the end stop. Evergreen (S197) was towards the end of the production run of the first manufacturer and the end stop was installed on these later boats to stop the problem identified in the early boats of the screw being screwed completely off the keel.
Taking the line of anti-fouling (black-green transition) to be the horizontal reference then I calculate the angle of the keel to the vertical as 25.78 degrees. Call it 26 degrees rearward tilt from being completely vertical. This is quite different from the 15 degrees mentioned in the manufacturers literature. My keel was working perfectly so it's not a case of it be held back or anything like that.
Joe
From the picture I have posted in the gallery of Evergreen on the cradle, I have calculated the angle of the keel. I know this picture was taken with the keel fully down (with the 45 or so turns of the screw) and only half a turn or so from the end stop. Evergreen (S197) was towards the end of the production run of the first manufacturer and the end stop was installed on these later boats to stop the problem identified in the early boats of the screw being screwed completely off the keel.
Taking the line of anti-fouling (black-green transition) to be the horizontal reference then I calculate the angle of the keel to the vertical as 25.78 degrees. Call it 26 degrees rearward tilt from being completely vertical. This is quite different from the 15 degrees mentioned in the manufacturers literature. My keel was working perfectly so it's not a case of it be held back or anything like that.
Joe
I’ve read somewhere that ‘early’ swifts had no rake on their masts the implications being that later boats did. I assume that the mast foot has always been in the same place therefore could it be that if early boats had keels angled at 15 degree and had vertical masts then later boat with 26 degree keels would have had more raked masts. Just a thought but it seems to me that you can’t alter one without the other.